Well, he was only onscreen for two minutes but Salmond had the best arguments for me.
Ok, the successful #scotlandspeaks hashtag to one side, Clegg won the 90 minutes. I thought that before I saw the thumping poll results which had the Lib Dem leader at 43% over Cameron's 26% and Brown's 20%. The clever use of picking out the candidates who asked the questions and constantly lumping the Tory and Labour viewpoints together was undoubtedly effective.
Nick Clegg's challenge was helped as Brown and Cameron were clearly competing for the Lib Dem leader's affection. At one point I was thinking Clegg should have been placed in the middle of the studio, Cameron could have called him and Brown could have called him and then we could have seen who he would have gone to.
For the majority of the event it was pretty tiresome stuff though, rehashed themes and even rehashed soundbites and speeches. As a Scottish viewer, the majority of the debate was irrelevant and a reminder that the SNP Government is doing a very good job indeed.
There were a few clangers which is always good to keep one entertained. Cameron believes we need to keep a nuclear deterrent because we don't know what will happen with Iran or, em, China and Clegg thinks elderly care is so important that we need to put people before politics on the topic. It makes one wonder why Nick's so happy to put politics before the people on other areas.
It was paradoxically absorbing but rather dull and will nonetheless help the three parties involved pull away from the remaining parties as the media pre-judge the election and implement artificial parameters on the debate.
Nick Clegg may have won but the Scottish people certainly lost.
17 comments:
No change there then.
Jeff,
Yes, a huge amount of it was irrelevant to a Scottish voter.
Still, I thought, whilst I watched it, that Nick Clegg won. He was far more impressive than I thought he would have been.
I was dead impressed with him.
It takes a huge amount of bottle to do what he did.
This could be a gamechanger.
Least that's what I think.
This is why that format is completely unfair to the SNP and Plaid.
At least we won the phyric victory of the moderator saying that certain questions were not relevant in other areas of the UK.
Douglas,
How did Nick need "bottle" to do what he did?
It was fairly pedestrian for him; he just came across better than Cameron (who choked a bit) and Brown (who was never going to shine in this platform).
Let's not get carried away and also let's not remember that we are deprived of comparing Clegg with Salmond which would have been a fascinating opportunity.
How is a nuclear armed Iran or an increasingly wealthy (read aggressive) PPRC not a cause for concern?
I favour a reduction in arms but not a unilateral disarmament as it leaves our nation open to nuclear blackmail. If other nations are in agreement, then thats fine. But they are not.
Russian bombers continually probe our defences, China seeks control over the entire South "China" Sea and is rapidly creating an extensive industrial base (allowing for the construction of colossal military might). The sleeping dragon no doubt looks with prying eyes for lebensraum to the north and south.
Yet the UK should abandon, unilaterally, its ultimate deterrent and the thousands of Scottish jobs it supports. Seems a bit foolish to me.
But if you want to try and see the gokd in Tin pot Iranian madmen or Chinese Politburo dictators; that's your business.
Yeah, the consensus is that Clegg stole the show. A shame for him that there isn't only one debate: in the second one, it won't be fashionable to say he won again, and the narrative will be that he's lost it.
Jeff,
hmm...
Perhaps I am trying to reflect what I saw?
It was pretty clear that Clegg won that debate, hands down. It was his to lose, and he didn't. So, the 'bottle' comment.
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I don't think any of them would have won a debate against Alec Salmond.
You may disagree, but I think it does take 'bottle' to stand up that well to the Lab / Con conspiracy and come out on top.
I think that, in an English perspective at least, he has changed the game.
We'll see when the opinion polls come out in a week or so whether Lib Dems have consolidated or improved their position.
I stand by my belief that the entire exercise is a cheat. At the very least Alec Salmond would have had numerous English voters wishing they could vote SNP.
Politico, despite valid concerns over Iran, these weapons will never be fired so they aren't much of a deterrent and are really just a waste of money.
Douglas, I think the crucial difference is that the game has changed for Clegg through events, through the poor leaders in Tory and Labour and also through having the debates themselves. Clegg's not doing much different to Kennedy or Ashdown that have gone before him, just the circumstances have changed.
Politico,
You're incorrect, about 950 jobs are directly related to the Nuclear Deterrent in Faslane. I acknowledge your comment and passion but you use the same fear that Labour employs.
Jeff,
I enjoyed the ppb by the SNP in my temp home in Londistan, makes a huge change and I wonder what the viewing figures are....
As for the debate, tractor stats, poor control and Mr Clegg stole the show, how that translates into votes will be worth following - hung parliament? Possibly but more debates to follow!
D
Jeff,
What you say about the game having changed is obviously true. But your headline asks:
"The debate - who won?"
And it is my opinion that Clegg did.
I am no more happy about the new rules than I suspect you are. But it would be churlish of me to say that Clegg didn't win when, as far as I saw it, he clearly did.
It was no Obama moment, but it was a damn impressive performance.
Doesn't Cameron look like a thing Eric Bristow?
One of the most irritating things about the debate was the way that Alistair Stewart kept repeating the incredibly clumsy proviso, this whatever is subject to the devolved settlement blah blah.
Why on earth could he not have said "this part of the debate applies to England only"?
The funniest comment of the evening came afterwards on Newsnicht Jockland when Gordon Brewer requested Lorraine Davidson to "put politics aside for a moment".
Hilarious, a bit like asking a ravenous lion to "put that wildebeest down".
All in all it convinced me that the SNP must take the BBC to court over this, as a dangerous precedent is being set. It was like watching an election debate for another country whilst being sneakily led to believe that it was yours and that despite your misgivings it was perfectly legitimate that you'd been made to stay away.
I keep hearing people say almost gleefully as Brewer did last night "Salmond was desperate to be on the debate" as if such a thing was an impertinence.
Time for the nats too get much much cheekier. This isn't the metropolitan boys club where the suits get to show of their body language lessons and snazzy silk ties, it's a UK election and the exclusion of the SNP is an affront to democracy.
Completely agree GrassyKnollington I confess I am puzzled by why the SNP have backed off. Could be a case of choosing time and place but I see nothing on the horizon.
Time to ask some questions to my MSP.
@Jeff: Why did you block my factual post regarding Diego Garcia and your Mr 'nice guy' Jack Straw?
950 jobs, £100bn?
I'm sure we could find a cheaper alternative for these people.
"It was like watching an election debate for another country whilst being sneakily led to believe that it was yours and that despite your misgivings it was perfectly legitimate that you'd been made to stay away."
- Grassyknollington.
Spot on.
Hmmm... yes large bits of it was irrelivant to the scottish viewer, however Brown and Cameron were straining at the leash to drag the debate back to an issue of vital importaince to Scotland, the ecconomy.
But Nick Clegg was very very good last night. I think that Clegg would do alright against Salmond though.
ED, my chubby fingers deleted a few comments by accident this weekend and I fear yours was one of them. I certainly don't recall reading a Diego G so sorry 'bout that.
I saw the debate and Mr.Clegg won hands down. However, I would back the Tories. I don't like the Lib Dem's policies and I think Mr. Clegg is a joke.
I did like Cameron pointing out that he was behaving all holier-than-thou ... which was king of annoying. He might as well have held a sign saying "I'm better than you!"
As far as defence goes (ie, Trident), Mr. Cameron was spot on: it is better to be over prepared than under. Like it or not, the UK is a global player and has responsibilities beyond its shores. If it were for the Lib Dems, the UK would have lost the Falklands (the military was already under prepared back then). Also, jettisoning the UK's defence capabilities would put a lot of people out of work.
As a first choice for Britain, I'd back the Tories, then Labour, and last the Lib Dems (the airy-fairy party).
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