Although I don't tend to read his Liberal Conspiracy blog too much, I have a lot of time for the little I know of Sunny Hundal. While Guido Fawkes is unmistakably narrowing political debate, Iain Dale is healthily and helpfully sustaining it, I get the impression goes to great pains to widen the narrative as much as possible, from a left wing viewpoint at least.
So I read with his interest his reasons for joining the Labour party and, with equal intrigue, his reasons for not joining any other party.
Joining Labour was the obvious choice. Joining the Libdems was not an option; the Tories stand for everything I’m against and the Libdems are unfortunately enabling the Tories to carry out a ruinous agenda. The Greens are too ideologically pure for me.
Ideologically pure? I found this a remarkable phrase to use not to mention decision not to join a party, particularly as I've just joined the Greens. To fully understand Sunny's meaning I got to thinking what an ideologically impure party would involve, a situation which is presumably preferable. U-turns, broken promises, no-one ever really believing what your party says and factions riven throughout the team. I found it odd that a blogger who discusses ideology so freely and openly would then use it as a negative.
A debate can be characterised as pragmatism vs dogma but equally it can be held up as doing the right thing vs selling out your ideals. However, that is typically on specific policies, when it coming to joining a party it is surely the 'dogma', the ideals, the doing the right thing and the ideology holds sway?
My unavoidable suspicion is that Sunny, like many other lefties out there, is in favour of the vast majority of Green Party policies but feels the party's current size doesn't match his lofty ambitions. Which is fine of course, it is in many ways akin to a football supporter selecting only one of Manchester Utd, Chelsea or Arsenal to support because they wish to wear their scarves while watching the Champions League.
However, it is surely ideological impurity itself to dismiss a party due to how principled it is rather than on what it's actual policies are.
In joining the Labour Party, Sunny Hundal has made his first compromise. Let's hope it's his last.
Tuesday, August 17, 2010
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9 comments:
Jeff, I respect your decision to join the Green party but I also understand Mr Hundals point as well.
The Green party will always do what is best for the enviroment. That though is not necassarily what is best for the country. They may also be the most honest party around at the moment but that also means that they are incapable of doing the shady stuff that parties have to be able to do. Compromise is a serious part of Politics and the focus of the greens makes them very poor for this.
Thanks LH,
I also understand Mr Hundals point but I just think he's being a bit cute with the proferred excuse.
Had 'ideologically pure' been replaced with 'i just don't hold the environment and climate change as top priorities' then that would be fine. But painting a perfectly rationale, logical and valid party as zealots just because Sunny didn't fancy digging a bit deeper into his thinking was a bit cheeky and, I think, the kind of myopic conscience-massaging that got New Labour into the mess it currently finds itself in.
I also think it's unfair to say that the Greens don't know how to compromise in Parliament when they've only had 1 MP for 100 days in Westminster's entire history. You've not got much to work with to come to that view if I may say so.
Other Green parties do very well at compromise in other countries (Sweden, Germany, Australia and even Scotland) so you, and Sunny, are too premature to write them off as inflexible.
Really ideological purity is about the difference between being in a positon to influence policy and getting into a position to implement policy.
The Greens in the Scottish Parliament have done a great job in terms of influencing and helping to shape policy. But they are never going to be in government. They are not trying to be - therefore they can afford to be ideologically pure.
If you are aiming to win an election you can't do that because you have to frame your message for the mainstream voters. That means by definition that you have to make your political platform pretty mainstream. Hence your ideological purity becomes a little sullied.
Greens in Scotland never to be in government? We had talks last time, and I certainly wouldn't rule it out after next May either.
In particular, the Tories have always been out of bounds and now the Libs have joined them. Given those two will never be big enough to rule Scotland, the other options are:
1. Minority government (still the most likely).
2. Labour or SNP get a majority by themselves (implausible)
3. Greens as junior partners in a coalition of some sort.
4. Greens or others doing confidence and supply. More likely than 3, I reckon.
Thanks for this, and I think my point needs more explanation.
It's not like the environment is not my top priority. In fact - it is.
But I have other issues with the Greens that I (admittedly) cack-handedly tried to fit into one line.
I promise I'll expand on this soon.
James. I'd go along with that thinking James. If you get back up to near double digits again then it'd only increase your chances of course.
I'm not convinced the Lib Demsvwill be frozen out if potential coalitions. If we're serious about devolution then we have to accept UK Lib Dems and Scottish Lib Dems are separate with separate policies. A bit like how the GPEW is a leftwing green party and GPS is a rightwing green party ;). That'll be why you Tory Greens are called GPS, you're still trying to find your way! (just messing with you big guy)
Thanks for the clarification Sunny. The line certainly stayed with me when I read it, as you can tell. But hey, it wouldn't be the first time a blogger hasn't quite covered his meaning with his words so maybe I shouldn't have read too much into it.
Maybe I should have said the Greens are never going to be in a position to FORM a government, not in the next few decades at least.
But Greens are in government across the Irish sea.
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