Comments on SNP Tactical Voting: Words

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Jeff,

I don't know if I would be arrogant e...

2008-08-22T16:53:00.000+01:00

Jeff,

I don't know if I would be arrogant enough to suggest I am part of what makes Scotland great(!) but if that helps you understand national pride then it works for me.

I very much associate pride with sporting success - I think it is a concept I've grown up with. But I guess national pride works along the same lines: Stephen is a Livi fan; when they were playing in Europe I bet he was as proud as he would have been if he was playing for them. Its about seeing something and associating yourself with that - whether it is success or failure. I would suggest that shame works the same way.

Let me turn this on you though. You joined a party that has, as a fundamental aim, independence for Scotland - because they are proud of their nation and feel that, it could do better as an independent nation (okay - I'm generalising a bit here).

If you don't subscribe to that ideology and/or do not support that goal, why did you join the SNP?

The example we used to use often was:

'visi...

2008-08-22T12:27:00.000+01:00

The example we used to use often was:

'visiting professors can be annoying'

which can has two meanings.

Can you tell what they are? Answers on a postcard to the usual address...

Well, I guess my "besiege" mis-spelling at the ver...

2008-08-22T10:36:00.000+01:00

Well, I guess my "besiege" mis-spelling at the very end of the post wasn't enough to convey the impression I wasn't taking this too seriously.

Anon 1 - Feet were very much up with the TV on and, due to lack of beers, a fair whack of wine was consumed. Cheers for the suggestion, even if the night was always going to pan out that way...

Anon 2 - Very good point. I did consider that briefly. Gay Pride Marches are similar to all-female, all-black candidate lists, over-reaching to right an apparent wrong. Yeah, I'd go along with that.

Malc - I'm still struggling to see where the pride sits. I think my only way out of the conundrum is to think: (1) You believe is a Scotland is a great country. (2) You believe you are contributing to that greatness. (3) You are therefore proud of Scotland as you are part of the reason for what it is.

I can get onboard with that logic.

Anon 4 - I'm not suggesting that an evoked identity and cultural pride would be the reason for an independent Scotland.

If I ever vote "yes" in a referendum it'll be because I believe Scotland can run her affairs better than a UK Government can. Simple as that.

Fred - So you're saying even if someone quotes my exact wordage they can still change the meaning? Disaster, i'm totally screwed then!

Una - Fair point. I perhaps misunderestimated how many meanings "pride" has.

(Yes, 'misunderestimated' was on purpose. I love that George W Bush, but don't quote me on that!)

Stephen - I'm glad the Olympics pleased you so much. I still can't fathom where the 'pride' actually stems from though.

Hands Jeff a much needed pint of something as you ...

2008-08-22T00:10:00.000+01:00

Hands Jeff a much needed pint of something as you clearly need it.

Now I don't know Tom Harris's sporting pedigree however from mine I take great 'pride' in the guys who have achieved what I came close to but didn't in getting to the Games doing so darn well. That is the sort of pride we're talking about there. I just wish I could actually create posts from my mums PC but I can't I'd have been whooping it up all week.

Sad that you're not proud to be heterosexual. ;) As someone said above, and this is something that really came to my attention the other day as I drove past Iris Robinson's offices within a stone's throw of my secondary school, too many people do still see it as something shameful. Personally I don't do 'Pride' my sexuality is part of me and that is as far as I take that. But as you know I nail my colours to the mast in other ways.

Boy was I proud of Alan Campbell getting to his final. Wendy Huevenagel winning silver and the Northern Irish boxers getting to their semis. Just as proud as I was of the Scots Hoy, et al and the other Brits as part of my national pride. Yeah maybe I'm slightly schizo-natiophrenic where my national pride lies. As that is two nations within the UK, people representing Ireland and the GB&NI definition rooled into one. But we're doing better than sporting giatns such as Russia and the Aussies as far as golds are concerned, plus the spirit in the team is no longer simply its good enough to just be there. There is a mind shift which if our nation takes up boy it would be great for us all.

I think you are considering only a narrow definiti...

2008-08-21T20:37:00.000+01:00

I think you are considering only a narrow definition of pride as a sense of self-achievement.

Its broader definition also includes valuing yourself, having self-respect and dignity. Completely appropriate for Gay Pride, which is making a political statement about not being ashamed of who you are - it's a political rally not just a camp carnival.

To anon 3, it is legitimate if, as is true in Scot...

2008-08-21T16:22:00.000+01:00

To anon 3, it is legitimate if, as is true in Scotland, the identity of a nation becomes a parody of itself and we perpetuate the myths of ourselfs.

If evoking this national pride means that we lift some areas of Scotland out of life expectancy rates in the late 50s, as we see in some areas of Glasgow, then this is worth while.

Bare in mind that unionism has its foundations in a sentimental view of the union.

I would also disagree with the others. Language is a subject close to my brain and I talk about it often. My degree in Communications allowed me to elect communication theory classes which were the most interesting by far.

One thing we studied was how every utterance is different, even when the words used are identical. So Jeff, don't get too annoyed, even if you were quoted accurately it would mean something differently anyway...

Very interesting comments on pride, especially com...

2008-08-21T15:23:00.000+01:00

Very interesting comments on pride, especially coming from a nationalist.

There is undoubtedly a sentimental foundation to Scottish nationalism, where by pride in one's culture and identity are evoked. Is this really a legitimate basis for the creation of a state?

Have to agree with Mr anon here mate. You think t...

2008-08-21T14:21:00.001+01:00

Have to agree with Mr anon here mate. You think too much. Maybe all that hard work your doing!

I think my reference was to why I was disappointed with Scotland at a particular instance - instead of the pride I usually feel at Scotland for a number of reasons - sporting success being just one of those.

I would assume perhaps that having "gay pride" mar...

2008-08-21T14:21:00.000+01:00

I would assume perhaps that having "gay pride" marches/events is to counter the regrettable view taken by too many people that homosexuality is something shameful. Not saying it is the correct application of the word, but it does for me.

But really I've been moved to comment on your blog for the first time because I want to complain that thanks to your use of the word "pride", I now have got that bloody song by Heather Small in my head

Chill out. Stick the TV on. Put your feet up. O...

2008-08-21T13:00:00.000+01:00

Chill out. Stick the TV on. Put your feet up. Open a bottle of beer.

That should sort you out.