Comments on SNP Tactical Voting: The ethics of tactical voting

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Thanks for the support Jeff!

2007-04-26T09:21:00.000+01:00

Thanks for the support Jeff!

Ok, I take your point, regardless of which anonymo...

2007-04-25T23:36:00.000+01:00

Ok, I take your point, regardless of which anonymous person you are.

I do think the primary reason the SNP have done well in this campaign is because they've gone for a softer approach with independence (and because Labour have been truly hopeless). As much as many in the party want independence, they have to accept that it isn't going to come soon and patience is key. It must be frustrating to want something very badly, to know in your heart of hearts that it would be a success but then the rest of the nation isn't quite with you. Yet.

I do think we are on an inevitable path to being independent one day and it excites me much more than it scares me. But right now, as I say, I'm non-plussed. I think you might need some sort of tipping point though I can't imagine what it could possibly be.

I just think pushing for it too hard, too soon, would set the SNP back to the low 20s in the polls and then we're stuck with a perennial Labour government and all the stale dullness that comes with it. It's a difficult balancing act for you to pull off but independence will only come when the people decide they want it rather than the party forcing it out of us.

And your last line makes sense, through your eyes, I get that. But I see 'winning' independence as a 2-stage process First - win Holyrood and secondly - prove yourselves in power resulting in a positive referendum result.

You're on the edge of the first stage, pretty much there really, so I'm sure you can afford cracking open a few bottles of champagne, even if you don't see it as the "win" you so crave. ;)

In other words, the SNP only really "wins" when we...

2007-04-25T22:54:00.000+01:00

In other words, the SNP only really "wins" when we are independent.

"We both want the same party to win, but seemingly...

2007-04-25T22:52:00.000+01:00

"We both want the same party to win, but seemingly for different reasons. I hope that doesn't upset you too much."

(I'm not the same anonymous as posted earlier in this thread - I'm the one who said the same kind of thing some time ago).

But the SNP is different from the other parties. At root, it champions one, fundamental, absolutely unshakeable principle: Scotland should be independent. You may well vote for it without believing in independence, agreeing with its other policies in certain areas, in which case fine. I'll welcome your vote. But, if you suggest something that renders independence less likely (as I think you risk doing), then I will disagree with you.

One other thing, there is an advantage for having ...

2007-04-23T12:08:00.000+01:00

One other thing, there is an advantage for having the Tories/Lib Dems win seats instead of Labour now I think about it.

An advantage that benefits both our hopes for the SNP.

By and large, a Lib Dem or Tory win in a FPTP seat will increase the SNP chances of winning an extra MSP in the regional vote. This is because Labour have more majorities in FPTP and losing an MSP would still usually mean their regional result would remain the same.

A Tory or Lib Dem getting in on FPTP would practically guarantee there would be one less MSP for the party. That frees up a regional position which, more often than not, it is the Greens or SNP who capitalise.

So that's something to think about perhaps....

Cheers,

jeff

Anonymous, the thing you need to realise is, I don...

2007-04-23T11:58:00.000+01:00

Anonymous, the thing you need to realise is, I don't particularly want independence.

I did not set this blog up with a view to furthering the independence cause.

I want to see the SNP in power in some way shape or form, give Alex and Nicola etc a chance to have a crack at running things as Labour haven't done such a good job in my eyes.

I really don't care if tactical voting furthers the independence cause or not, Scotland will be a cracking country as part of the UK or separate from it.

I therefore agree that my blog is a "lets kick labour out" one but, given I want the SNP to win in May, I think I am justified in calling it by the name it currently enjoys.

I hope you don't always have such a blinkered approach that all supporters of a particular party have to want the exact same things from it and have identical viewpoints.

We both want the same party to win, but seemingly for different reasons. I hope that doesn't upset you too much. And I genuinely wish you all the best in your campaigning in these last remaining days.

Sorry, but you have still not justified your metho...

2007-04-23T11:48:00.000+01:00

Sorry, but you have still not justified your method of tactical voting as far as I can see. You are suggesting that some SNP voters vote tactically for Tories and Liberals to kick out Labour. I can understand how this works in so far as it helps reduce the amount of Labour MSPs, but in what way does this aide the SNP and their central aim of independence? Why are we better off with the Tory/Liberal flavour of unionism rather than the Labour type? I believe your blog is actually more a "Let's Kick Labour Out Tactical Voting" site rather than "SNP Tactical Voting"!

You can choose not to vote for someone if you real...

2007-04-23T01:06:00.000+01:00

You can choose not to vote for someone if you really want to give them a kicking. But you are better to vote for a few, because that way your choices will go a bit further.

http://www.youthstart.org/STV/

Yes but might it not be better not to vote Labour ...

2007-04-23T00:13:00.000+01:00

Yes but might it not be better not to vote Labour or BNP at all and just vote for say your first four choices?

As I understand it you make anything from one choice up to the whole paper.

When I say make a few choices, I mean on the STV c...

2007-04-22T22:34:00.000+01:00

When I say make a few choices, I mean on the STV council elections of course. Voting a few times in each Holyrood vote will probably be a waste of time!

Yes, a bit like having a Big Mac, tactical voting ...

2007-04-22T22:33:00.000+01:00

Yes, a bit like having a Big Mac, tactical voting seems like a good idea at the time but it leaves you with a fairly sick feeling in your stomach for a few days afterwards...

It's best to make a few choices I think. Say you want Lib Dems and don't want Labour. Make sure Lib Dems are 1st and Labour are last. Well, 2nd to last if BNP are standing ;)

So you're voting for the party you want and also making sure their rivals are sitting last.

I know a lot of people who are tactically voting for the SNP this time around so don't worry Clairwil, you're not alone. Perhaps you should all set up some sort of support group from May 4th onwards...

I know what you mean about tactical voting. It doe...

2007-04-22T21:59:00.000+01:00

I know what you mean about tactical voting. It doesn't exactly fill me with joy but on balance I believe that Labour have damaged Scotland to the extent that I'm willing to vote against them, rather than for anything else.

To that end I think I'll be going for two SNP votes and SNP as my first choice for council. I think that's my best option though the Lib Dems seem popular round my way.

Now here's a question for you about the STV system. Is it better just to vote for one party or make a few choices? Does multiple voting dilute your first vote?